I think you are genuinely muddying the waters here. What does genre have to do with bad behaviour? Or do you think so-called literary types intrinsically comport themselves better?

I think you are genuinely muddying the waters here. What does genre have to do with bad behaviour? Or do you think so-called literary types intrinsically comport themselves better?

Hey Colleen --

I'm generally in agreement with you, but I think you may be overstating things by tarring the entire field (many members of who haven't even heard about this yet, I'm sure). (And actually, that's an important point -- a lot of people don't get involved in online discussions and that doesn't mean that they won't act in other ways.) Yes, there are a lot of assholes saying things that shouldn't ever see the light of day, but there are also genre writers, other professionals, and fans telling them those things are unacceptable (regardless of their standing in "the field") and people saying incredibly hopeful and important things. Why would you stop reading SFF when someone like Ben Rosenbaum, who wrote so movingly to HE about this, is writing it?

Most people agree that the organizations in SF are useless, and many people may end up quitting them when this over. This is still a young field historically speaking and these are growing pains. This, in my opinion, will be a watershed moment (I hope, anyway) after which some things are simply not tolerated anymore. Elizabeth Bear expressed it best; what you are seeing is the rage that comes when people who have had power see they are losing it. That's a good thing and, as depressing as much of this is, I believe it is necessary and it will make things better. Please remember that most of these people are fringe elements and don't tar the field -- when many in it are Not Letting This Go By -- by the actions of a few. That's what they want. It makes them too important.

I also disagree that without action by the organizations themselves, nothing else matters. That's just not true. The actions of single, solitary people can matter very much, and so do the voices of a bunch of people raised together in protest. Those organizations may not be saying anything and may not ever, but you can bet they are hearing all this.

I do wish that there wasn't this vibe of "the community will sort it out" -- that's just b.s. We need people like you and Ed in this dicussion.

But, frankly, it's insulting to me for you to suggest that people like my husband and Gavin Grant and Alan DeNiro and Elizabeth Bear shouldn't be allowed at the "grown-up table" because they happen to share a market category with a bunch of tired old hacks. Especially when they are trying to change things.

Colleen: What Gwenda said to a large degree. While I remain extremely cynical about the science fiction community, it is important to remember that the vocal part doesn't necessarily speak for the whole.

And I'm tired of hearing about these almost incestuous communities, as if they have anything whatsoever do with writing.

I understand what you are saying and clearly I'm not going to give up on Ray Bradbury anytime soon (I mean really!). But I think the point I was making with this post is that as a reader - and only a reader - it has been enormously disheartening to see so many authors jump onto everyone in such vicious ways on all these boards.

And I think Sarah said on your post at one point that she could not imagine this sort of thing going on in the mystery genre.

So maybe they are all like this - the romance people, the mystery people, the horror people...etc. You get the idea. Maybe this has just shown the dirty underbelly of the sci fi genre. We are all people and I get that.

I'm just expressing how disappointed and surprised I was to read it, and that's all.

I'll take down the post. After what happened to Steve Irwin this weekend I just can't stand any of this crap anymore.